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  #31  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

Just saw The Movie again. It's even better the second time! You can appreciate the performances even more!


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Its obvious people don't care about these things. And that disapoints me some, what it says to me is that they can feed ya anything as long as it shiny.

If everything had to be just-so for me to enjoy it, I'd positively hate TOS.

Case in point: A Piece Of The Action - arguably one of the more popular TOS episodes.


Have you ever seen the documentation - the spec books that explain exactly how to make an M-16? Everything from alloys to the heat treating to the actual diagrams and dimensions of the parts themselves? It comprises many volumes...and that doesn't include the various types of ammunition with their powder and primer formulations, projectile designs, etc. etc. etc.

In that episode, you had Thompsons. Maybe not as complex as the M-16 but then there were all manner of old cars, old-style clothing, building architecture, electricity, telephones, playing cards (with rules!), various drinks, fully-developed language patterns, and on and on and on whose designs had to come from somewhere.

I seriously doubt that that one book, "Chicago Mobs of the Twenties", covered all that.

Go to a screening of it and start bitching anout there being no way they could have had X or Y and somebody'll throw milk duds at you.

And that's just one episode out of 79 that comprised a part of one of the most popular, beloved, and recognizeable cultural icons in history.


If I'm watching, say, "Band Of Brothers", I want it as correct as humanly possible. I want the actors to wear the exact and proper uniforms as their real-life counterparts and so on.

But Trek? Hell, cheese is a part of the recipe.
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

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But Trek? Hell, cheese is a part of the recipe.
And apparently so is whine to go with that cheese! Well said.
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  #33  
Old 05-15-2009, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

Look I'm not claiming that the movie needs to be completely accurate scientifically, I'm saying that its 2009 not 1966, things are and should be better.

The one thing the TOS had over most new trek is storytelling. Thats not the case here, the storytelling was good but some of the elements of that story in the year 2009, just look and sound dumb.

The only reason they get a pass at all is that its star trek. To me thats not a good excuse. I always thought a piece of the action was one of the dumbest of all the original episodes along with roman stories and old west stories and a bunch more. Those shows were for an audience that was alot more niave, or at least I thought so.

Using the excuse that its not worth wanting smarter movies because of stuff that happened in the past just doesn't wash with me. Theres plenty of smart sci fi that has come down the pike since TOS.

My saying the stuff I've said in the way I've said it is because eventhough I liked the movie, there were plot holes large enough to fly that bigass romulan ship through.

Look, I'm hard to please with Abrams anyway, so when he starts messin' around with the show that really started it all, I expect him to treat it right. He did partially. But there was plenty that was whack.

And the bottom line is, that nobody is really had a disagreeable comment to most of the things I've sited, your just sayin' let it go. I stopped the list at 5 because at that point it would have been piling on.

I understand why they did the story the way they did, I've said a couple of times that it saddens me that they destroyed the future to make a whole new one cuz, I liked the future that was already there. But I have to live with it. So with that in mind I hope abrams makes the second and third and so on as smart as some of the older movies. Fingers crossed
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  #34  
Old 05-15-2009, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

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Originally Posted by steve1138 View Post
And the bottom line is, that nobody is really had a disagreeable comment to most of the things I've sited, your just sayin' let it go.
I'll try

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1. A romulan comes back in time to spocks far past to exact revenge? Then hangs around a in a ship that bigger than anything in that time period for 25YEARS, man thats alot of anger. and a hard ship to hide. Besides he only whacks one ship in that 25 years. If he was that mad and knew how much powerful his ship was over all the fleets of the alpha quadrant he could have layed waste to everything as soon as he got there. Why wait?
Nero's patience is explained in the film (as well as the Countdown series of comics). Why OLD Spock as opposed to YOUNG Spock? Because OLD Spock witnessed the destruction of Romulus. Nero blames OLD Spock for the loss of his home world, AND the loss of his wife and son. He wanted OLD Spock to suffer as he suffered.

Quote:
2. Why be mad at spock, what about the high council, they let everyone on Romulus die for nothing. Spock was just trying to help. The Romulans weren't stupid, what were they doing to save the planet. This guy couldn't see that? They had to know long before that the sun was in trouble.
Again, the countdown series of comics explains all this. It was Spock who had the plan to save Romulus and failed. The High Council did not agree with Spock's findings and refused to help. As did the Romulan Empire. Spock and Nero embark on their own to fix things. Spock fails, and Nero blamed Spock.

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3. When They dropped off spock on the planet NEXT to vulcan, why didn't it get drawn into the black hole? It was damned close. And did spock use mental power on the hairless snowplanet monster, because a hand held torch probably wouldn't help.
How close was the planet? For that matter, how big is Vulccan? Not quite sure what you are referring to in your second question.

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4.Dont they have anybody on the design team for this movie that knows what the interior of a starship should look like? The romulan ship was a workers deathtrap, with no railing anywhere and all these multilevels built for spider monkeys. And the Enterprise engine room was just plain hilarious, they shot those scenes at some petroluem factory or some thing. The set was so big it could never fit inside the enterprise hull.
Different cultures different styles, different ships. I felt that the mining ship was certainly no ship of luxury like possibly a starship. Is a deep sea fishing vessel as comfortable as a luxery liner? The Romulans are stronger than humans and quite capable of jumping distances and scaling heights that would kill a man. I saw Nero's ship as one for hard work with no added comfortable factor.

The Enterprise's Engine room to me looked mechanical. I got the notion of things working which is exactly what Abrams set out to do. We just did not see a bunch of consoles and buttons. We saw the inner workings of what possibly made this Star Ship fly. How pretty are the engine rooms of a luxury liner? A battle ship?

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5. And finally, what is the deal with scotty, come on! They find the guy stuck away on an ice planet and as soon as they get onboard the enterprise, he's runnin' transports (put in charge even) of an engine room that I'm sure had a chief engineer when they left dry dock, and he's yelling I'm givin' ye all she got! Puleeeeze!
Again, the film makes this clear. Scotty was put in charge because of his brilliant engineering mind, his experience with the transporters. Spock makes this clear. Even though young Kirk does not know old Spock as well as he will, he still has an inert trust of Spock. And since young Kirk finally takes command of the Enterprise, it was his choice to make to replace the existing chief engineer.

And since the film makes no mention of an existing chief engineer, it is quite possible they left space dock with out one.
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  #35  
Old 05-15-2009, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

I think the existing engineer was the red-shirt who bought it on the drilling platform.

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  #36  
Old 05-15-2009, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

After reading everyone's comments and intelligent critiques the thing that keeps popping up is that you have to read the Countdown comics to further understand the back story and fill in the plot. I loved the movie, but this has become my only real criticism. Yeah, I admit you could fly a shuttle through some of the plot holes. But you shouldn't have to rely on the comic to understand the movie. I like how the mind meld was used to fill us in on what happened, but perhaps there wasn't enough information? In the end though, this was meant for a broader audience that could not care less about canon violations. My little stab above wasn't directed at any one person here and the comments I've read have been well thought out. Sorry I didn't clarify.
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2009, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1138 View Post
Look I'm not claiming that the movie needs to be completely accurate scientifically, I'm saying that its 2009 not 1966, things are and should be better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1138 View Post
The one thing the TOS had over most new trek is storytelling.
Not exactly accurate. What Trek Classic had that set it apart from some newer Trek and certainly most other television shows were the characters and the chemistry between them. That factor is present here, and that factor is what makes some of the cheesier episodes and movies even watchable.

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Originally Posted by steve1138 View Post
I always thought a piece of the action was one of the dumbest of all the original episodes along with roman stories and old west stories and a bunch more.
I'm not surprised.

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Originally Posted by steve1138 View Post
come down the pike since TOS.
HeHe HeHe HeHe He said 'Pike'! HeHe


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Originally Posted by steve1138 View Post
Look, I'm hard to please with Abrams anyway,
Fighting preconceived notions can be a bitch.

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Originally Posted by steve1138 View Post
And the bottom line is, that nobody is really had a disagreeable comment to most of the things I've sited,
You misspelled 'Cited'.

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Originally Posted by steve1138 View Post
saddens me that they destroyed the future to make a whole new one cuz, I liked the future that was already there.
I hate that they did that too - but in a way it will benefit. It'll benefit because no matter what the crew of the E do, there'll always be herds of Whiskey Bravos will whine - unnecessarily - that it was inaccurate or didn't happen that way or 'They were one Tribble short in that scene so they bastardized the whole franchise!'
They didn't just fling a cavalier fuck-you to TOS, though that is what I expected.

(Hey, you want accuracy? At least this one shows that everything ain't hunky-dory after you fuck with the timestream!)

Yawn.

Trek hasn't been rebooted - McCoy isn't a Klingon, Spock isn't Human, and Kirk isn't a homicidal dyke.

Trek has been reborn - Kirk = Kirk, Spock = Spock, etc.


Whiskey Bravos should be happy about that, but then they'd cease to be Whiskey Bravos.
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2009, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

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After reading everyone's comments and intelligent critiques the thing that keeps popping up is that you have to read the Countdown comics to further understand the back story and fill in the plot.
You don't need to read the countdown series to further understand Trek's plot. The Countdown series just makes things a bit clearer. For me personally, the film explained it all.
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  #39  
Old 05-15-2009, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

I watched it AGAIN last night and you can hear them refer to the Red Shirt that bought the farm on the drilling rig as "Engineer Olsen". He was the engineer and Scotty took his place.
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

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I watched it AGAIN last night and you can hear them refer to the Red Shirt that bought the farm on the drilling rig as "Engineer Olsen". He was the engineer and Scotty took his place.
Ahhh...thanks for that
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  #41  
Old 05-15-2009, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1138
The one thing the TOS had over most new trek is storytelling.

Not exactly accurate. What Trek Classic had that set it apart from some newer Trek and certainly most other television shows were the characters and the chemistry between them. That factor is present here, and that factor is what makes some of the cheesier episodes and movies even watchable.
Fine, let me retract that and say what I really meant, The characters and how they portrayed the story was what made it good. The very fact that they were the first of the many beloved crews of the star trek universe shows that.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1138
And the bottom line is, that nobody is really had a disagreeable comment to most of the things I've sited,

You misspelled 'Cited'.
Yeah, this remark adds nothing to the conversation other than to say your a smart ass. If your gonna critique my observations do that and try and stay away from juvenile oneupsmanship.


Quote:
Raist3001How close was the planet? For that matter, how big is Vulcan? Not quite sure what you are referring to in your second question.
The size of vulcan isn't the matter, its the fact that spock could plainly see vulcan from the surface of the iceplanet, and it was pretty damn close. Are these the kind of black holes that once they devour the target shut down? Or do they act like what we see in science, that they start sucking everything in sight in. At the very least I would think that iceplanet would begin to have some time dialations, tremors, something. But it was ignored. When a writer and director ignore this kind of precept, then its weakens the story for me.

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Different cultures different styles, different ships. I felt that the mining ship was certainly no ship of luxury like possibly a starship. Is a deep sea fishing vessel as comfortable as a luxery liner? The Romulans are stronger than humans and quite capable of jumping distances and scaling heights that would kill a man. I saw Nero's ship as one for hard work with no added comfortable factor.
Yeah, I know its alien, but don't ya think they would make it easy to do the job, jeez romulans are suppose the be smart. The design just wasn't thought out at all. The way they had that ship set up the romulans should have been a race with wings. large gapped multilevel stairstepped floors that had no guardrails or protection for the men that worked on the machinery is just nuts, the romulans aren't suicidal. At least not before romulus blew up anyway.

Quote:
Again, the film makes this clear. Scotty was put in charge because of his brilliant engineering mind, his experience with the transporters. Spock makes this clear. Even though young Kirk does not know old Spock as well as he will, he still has an inert trust of Spock. And since young Kirk finally takes command of the Enterprise, it was his choice to make to replace the existing chief engineer.
I get this too, and your right,all of this happened, but does that really seem right to you? Really,kirk just met scotty and the way they play him in the role this time he's more fuck up than buttondown engineer. I guess my issue is with the way he was played. Scotty had his momentsof levity in TOS but the dude was serious when it came to his ship and thats because he help design it. How could this scotty know as much about the ship in a moments notice as even the second chief engineer. They were in a true moment of crisis.
Who is this guy, the scottish B.A. Baracus?

Quote:
The Enterprise's Engine room to me looked mechanical. I got the notion of things working which is exactly what Abrams set out to do. We just did not see a bunch of consoles and buttons. We saw the inner workings of what possibly made this Star Ship fly. How pretty are the engine rooms of a luxury liner? A battle ship?
Sure your right, but my issue is that there are no walls in sight, that engine room went out of the picture. I know the E is a big girl but Dang! not that big,
it just gave the feeling that they weren't in a spaceship but a set that was at an oil refinery. The enterprise is not a stanley steamer, if the bridge is so supercool then why doesn't some of that rub off on the engineering room. Especially during the rotorooter scene. I'll put it this way, the engine room looked as crude in its own way as the TOS one does.

As I have read and posted, I figured I would run into opposition on my points because this is star trek and the overall audience is just starved for it. The fanchise has been pretty bad for a while and if it even looks like it will be good then everyone seems to just go with it. But the story had that a-team convience to it, everything just comes together, whether it made sense or not.

I paid my money and I liked it for the most part, but things like this in other posts about a different movie would have been called out and I wouldn't be alone in those statements. I know I'm in the minority in this discussion. But defending the movie just cuz it the movie isn't a strong defense. I don't want to have to do a bunch of reading in side stories and comics just to understand the motivations that should have been translated on screen.

I've talked to non-fan friends of mine that saw the movie, most dug it but some thought some of the stuff I mentioned was valid, others didn't care one way or the other. My concern is that JJ abrams will be able to turn star trek into a mindless fastfood action flick like an arnold movie because folks will just ignore the stuff in the original universe star trek helped us to understand. As I said I've got my fingers crossed, and I hope this turns into the best that star trek has every been, But I doubt it.

We're just gonna have to disagree on this one I guess , no foul.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

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The size of vulcan isn't the matter, its the fact that spock could plainly see vulcan from the surface of the iceplanet, and it was pretty damn close. Are these the kind of black holes that once they devour the target shut down?
That's what I understood wou8ld happen with the red matter. It was a controlled black hole. Spock wanted to use the red matter to save Romulus by introducing the matter to the star that was going super nova. The red matter would have rid the empire of the star and would have saved Romulus.

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Yeah, I know its alien, but don't ya think they would make it easy to do the job, jeez romulans are suppose the be smart.
Well, I am reminded of the Klingons. After all, Klingons were smart, but their star ships reflected no comfort factor like a Federation ship.

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Really,kirk just met scotty and the way they play him in the role this time he's more fuck up than buttondown engineer. I guess my issue is with the way he was played.
I wont disagree with you. I felt there was something lacking in the way Scotty was played. The voice was there, but he seemed a bit unfamliar. Although I can accept him becoming the chief engineer as it happened.

Quote:
but my issue is that there are no walls in sight, that engine room went out of the picture. I know the E is a big girl but Dang! not that big,
it just gave the feeling that they weren't in a spaceship but a set that was at an oil refinery.
The sets I believe were built to display size. And apparently, this new Enterprise IS huge.

Quote:
I'll put it this way, the engine room looked as crude in its own way as the TOS one does.
That's a good point, and I can see why you feel this way. I always felt the engine rooms lacked a bit of what made the ship go. I really liked the engine room on the NX-01.

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But the story had that a-team convience to it, everything just comes together, whether it made sense or not.
Plenty of ST episodes that fit that discription

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We're just gonna have to disagree on this one I guess , no foul.
Absolutely In any case, this is the level of debate I have been craving. One without the childish comments like 'rape' and 'abomination'. I appreciate your opinions and civil presentation
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  #43  
Old 05-16-2009, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

Ha, well my fears are confirmed, and it only took a few days. Has anybody seen the new commercials runnin' for the movie yet. You know, the ones with 20 something airheads that can barely put a sentence toghter without the work like in it, And what were the comments on said movie? How cute everybody was in the flick, how hot this person or that was. Yep its over, it won't be long now, cuz this fan base really knows what it likes. Man in this case I really hate being right........
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  #44  
Old 05-16-2009, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: The Star Trek movie SPOILER thread! DO NOT READ if you haven't seen the film!!!!

I see it somewhat... well... differently. Nothing we can do about Generation Dumb... but maybe... just MAYBE, some of them will check out where it all came from... and decide that those non-having-a-life Trekkies were on to something afterall. Maybe.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: Star Trek - Holy S***! That was good.

Saw it Sunday at the matinee. The theatre was packed ! Overall I was quite impressed. It definitely had a grimier Star Wars look to it which is not a bad thing at all. That opening scene with the Kelvin was awesome ! One thing I still can't figure out is engineering- looked like a distillery to me- which, come to think of it, would suit Scotty just fine !
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