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Old 04-10-2011, 01:55 AM
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Default Green or Blue screen?

Hi Guys after months and months of work I am now ready to start shooting elements for my rebel fleet for my book.
So; I feel that I have got green screen extraction tied down pretty well.
However I am now about to composite on a Star Background, so do I need Green or Blue screen? Obviously desaturation is all part of the final composite (to get that authentic Star Wars look). But would Blue screen give me less heartache than Green?

Thoughts please guys....
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:06 AM
Christrom Christrom is offline
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

I have heard that green screen gives a clearer extraction (less noise), but bluescreen is easier on the eyes if you get any overspill. Personally I would do a quick test with both, but I would probably go for bluescreen.
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

By the way... are you photoshopping all this stuff? If so, if you'd like to send me a file I could have a go myself. I use photoshop as a large part of my job, and without boasting, I'm pretty good at it
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Yes good old photoshop is the tool of choice.
Good idea to try both; as I said used green with blue skies and the extraction was awesome.
I'm shooting in RAW and compositing in TIFF as it gives a really good clear image without much noise at all.

Will get some images together soon and post for critic.
Can't really forward files as Tiff files are too big for my e-mail to cope with.
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Old 04-11-2011, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Have you ever used Lab colour in photoshop? I edit all colour changes to photographs this way now. If you haven't I highly recommend it!
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Old 04-16-2011, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Lab colour?
Is it available on CS3?
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:43 AM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Yes it is available on every version of photoshop as far as I know. It splits the image into 3 channels:
(L) lightness channel
(A) channel - containing magenta and green
(B) channel - containing yellow and blue
Have a look on youtube, there are many videos on the subject. It just works a little differently from RGB and personally I think it gives more professional editing results. You can saturate and desaturate a lot more effectively and without losing as much quality.

Go to image mode - Lab, and get the channels window open. Select each of them in turn and mess around with the levels/contrast for each channel. I'm sure you will find it interesting
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Old 05-06-2011, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Thanks Christrom,

Will have a good play.
Have settled on Blue for hold out, Green gives a very crisp line but is difficult to feather against Black without getting a white line.
Blue; feathers much easier against black and gives a pretty good image once saturation is reduced.
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Old 05-07-2011, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Choosing blue or green depends on a couple basic factors.

-Is there blue or green in your subject matter? If so, use the opposite color.

-Blue is better against flesh, green is better against everything else.

-Quality of camera. Even the best have bad noise in their blue channel. Just no way around it unless you shoot on film and scan that in.

In all cases, despilling (compositing term) the edges is required. There will always be a feather of blue or green, so you gotta color correct that without changing the color of the main body (which also has to be color corrected from any bounce light).

Here's a primer on the shoot process I wrote for the modeler magic companion site to RI.
http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=15154
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Thanks will take a look,

Yeah I got spill, but was able to remove. The biggest pain I have at the mo is the 4/5 times I have to de-saturate to take some clarity out of the image and make it look ILM cira 1980.
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Old 07-08-2011, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Blue vs Green screen is a problem that you can decide based on what colors you have in your models. I go with green when I have a dominantly gray model. Green and Blue are colors that will Stand off from the color that is present in the foreground when the CHROMA is correctly lit in the BACKGROUND. Chroma is the value of color related to the intensity of light hitting it, in this case it is better to have a more saturated color that is mat, not reflective. The less light it takes to achieve a universal flat color, the better. Spill can happen more frequently when there is more light on the background than on the subject.

Correctly lighting the background consists of eliminating shadowy spots and beaming all of the "green or blue" with plenty of light, while NOT making hot spots. Hollywood does this by using a special nylon fabric that they stretch out on frames and back light, I used several eight foot florescents to spill light evenly onto a 20'x10' canvas. With this much light, you need to get the distance of the model to the back ground far enough to eliminate SPILL. Edit: Spill is the light that is bounced off the background mat onto the subject matter in the foreground, or the object being photographed or filmed.

When you consider the amount of light, and the size of the model, most correctly lit scenes take at minimum a 5 foot minimum to the background. If your model is about 1 foot squared, then you have a 10'x10 backdrop, just to make any angles and clear shots possible. Sounds like overkill? Well try it out and you will eliminate ALL the problems that are common to garage screeners, and you won't have to mess with Photoshop for hundreds of hours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Christrom View Post
Yes it is available on every version of photoshop as far as I know. It splits the image into 3 channels:
(L) lightness channel
(A) channel - containing magenta and green
(B) channel - containing yellow and blue
Have a look on youtube, there are many videos on the subject. It just works a little differently from RGB and personally I think it gives more professional editing results. You can saturate and desaturate a lot more effectively and without losing as much quality.

Go to image mode - Lab, and get the channels window open. Select each of them in turn and mess around with the levels/contrast for each channel. I'm sure you will find it interesting
While you can try this out and find out how to crop any picture, I would recommend not to "Jerryrig" the problem, but to find a system that works and adopt the parts that work for you. Line fuzz and aliased shadowing are problems that arise from the picture, not the selection methodology, MOST of the time. I have been a Designer since before Photoshop came along, and I know about every type of channel trick, mat technique and tool to create masks and selections; nothing beats a great photo to start with.

Get the Blue or Green screen right, take the sharpest photo possible, and use the damn WAND. The most you should have to do is set the tolerances on it.
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Last edited by AbsoluteSciFi; 07-08-2011 at 04:10 PM. Reason: definitions
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Well spoken. Good notes to keep in mind.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

Wow!

Thanks again guys keep that info coming.
Now all I need to do is stop everything looking to evenly spaced!!!!!

Oh and not desaturate as much.
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Green or Blue screen?

From this simple green backdrop I am able to
create the knock out for a mat. The only problem
is that I spent some extra time Guessing where
the shadows ended, making it very dodgy when
it comes to accuracy. The darkest shadows are
what I am referring to, not the light green ones.

Note the middle left photo, I left the shadow
in the picture to show what the wand did not pick out.
I could selected for that area, but I would also have
selected areas of the model that should be in the shot.
The point of floating a model OFF of the green screen
is to eliminate all shadows, and thus avoid this problem.




This is the final result of my effort, which by the way,
was a shot I had already made with a model sitting
directly on top of a green fabric, with no special lighting.
Getting a perfect mat for a picture would not be hard
at all if I had floated the model in the foreground.
There was spill in this picture, and I had to remove it
from the wand selection before deleting the background.



If this had been a video, the masking of the spill
would have been a constant annoyance that would
certainly be a pain to deal with. Not impossible,
but still would make the job much harder.
For one shot, a picture, not so bad.

In this shot, I have deliberately chosen a contrasting
colored background to illustrate how color shift in lighting
can affect believability. The blues and greens in the
background image do not have any bearing on the
subject matter, and therefore do not tie in the model
to the star-field. Take this into account when
lighting your models.
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Last edited by AbsoluteSciFi; 07-14-2011 at 11:58 PM. Reason: addition
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