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  #256  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neb View Post
I'll tell ya Rob----if a fella couldn't build this model using your tutorial, he shouldn't be modeling.

EXCELLENT tutorial.

As soon as I can lay my hands on a Chieftain..... I'm going to be putting this tutorial to the test!
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  #257  
Old 11-04-2012, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

The Chieftain part of this has always been one of the problems and I certainly understand that. It's a kit that you MUST have to build these and it's NEVER been cheap. The one time it had the chance to be cheap (they were about $20.00) was when a couple different companies released knock-off 1:25 Chieftains at just about the same time, one being motorized and the other NON-motorized.

That would have been the chance of a lifetime for these builds had it not been for the fact that there were SO MANY things that turned out to be different in both kits from an actual TAMIYA kit. BOTH knock-off kits had the same exact different molds and problems, so neither ended up being a very good choice to replace the TAMIYA.

The chassis on the knock-offs could be used, but even that would need to be modified. Both the knock-offs came with plastic suspension parts that were really not ideal. They both benefitted greatly by MAKING new metal suspension pieces. Although not very hard to make, it was something that really needed to be done amking these two knock-offs really no good for these laser tanks at all. I don't know how they would have held up for those who bought this to build as a Chieftain tank, but that ain't me, so I can't say.

Rob.
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  #258  
Old 11-05-2012, 06:20 AM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Rob,i find while building the cheiftain section,because you have to allow for the EMA hub caps the wheels tend to get glued too,have you a solution for this,luckly my first effort is static but i know the original moved along as seen in the show

any tips?

D
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  #259  
Old 11-05-2012, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Well rockwell, this is where I have deviated slightly from the originals. You shouldn't have a problem at all if you stick the caps on in the same fashion that the originals were. The original laser tank builds had the caps installed ON the poly type caps used to hold the wheels on the metal shaft for each wheel.

As seen in this picture:





That is one of the wheels of the original Flat-Top tank. One of the VHE-20's has popped off. As you can see, the original poly cap for the wheels of the Chieftain were trimmed and probably sanded some. I say that because where you see that center metal part in that picture (the suspension shaft for that wheel), there should be "lug nuts" still showing. On an untrimmed poly cap (as folks with a Chieftain know) that part of the poly cap for each wheel has lug nut detail and a center point that protrudes. All that is gone in that picture, so that is the way they were originally installed.

Since that was how the were installed, the VHE-20's DID NOT turn on the original. That poly cap section of the wheels was stationary and the cap attached would be stationary also. The rear wheel (drive wheel on the motors) did turn. There's no way except for that one to turn.

Ok, mine are a little different. Those caps stuck directly to that poly cap come off fairly easily since the material the poly caps are made of doesn't glue very well. They're made from the same sorta material as, best described, a tupperware or rubbermaid or superglue container type plastic. How the originals have stayed in place after all these years and through all those hands is amazing. I suppose that means they WILL stay on, but I like to make sure.

What I do is, I trim the poly caps just below the lug nut section and have none sticking out like you see in that previous picture. I insert the poly cap plug in the wheel hole making sure that it is slightly below the opening in the wheel. Then, I stick the VHE-20's to the wheel lip instead of the poly caps. The only thing that happens when you do this is that now the VHE-20 "hubcaps" will rotate instead of stay stationary as they do on the original tanks, BUT, they are really secure since they are glued to the hard plastic wheel instead of those poly caps.

THIS IS NOT like the originals, so if you're trying to stay as true as possible, you need to stick the VHE-20's to the poly caps.

To make sure the VHE-20's are perfectly centered on each wheel, of course once again, I made a template/tool which centeres each VHE-20 on the wheel. I needed to make sure they are perfectly centered since they would now rotate with the wheels and any off-centered hubcap would be noticeable.

Now, I've never had a problem with having the wheel not turn. With the way I do it that I've just described, it is easier to make a mistake and have glue get between the ploy cap nub and the wheel hub, but I use just a small amount of superglue just at that lip on the wheel and never try and put the wheel on the shaft until it's had some time to set for a bit. The wheel gets held onto the chassis shaft by that poly nub which is now sealed behind the poly cap, so installing the wheel is just a matter of pushing it on the shaft later by pressing the center of the VHE-20.

Rob.
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File Type: jpg poly.JPG (13.9 KB, 86 views)
File Type: jpg poly300.jpg (109.4 KB, 85 views)
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Last edited by Eagle-1; 11-05-2012 at 03:16 PM.
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  #260  
Old 11-05-2012, 03:05 PM
rockwellcm rockwellcm is offline
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Thanks a lot Rob,thats answered a lot of questions regarding this area,its always best to ask if your stuck,and this really bugged me.
thanks for the turret section you posted recently,that was another area that was puzzling me,the tanks are expensive to go chopping them up and you dont know the correct way (or where) to cut them

keep up the good work,a fantastic thread

D
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  #261  
Old 11-05-2012, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

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Originally Posted by rockwellcm View Post
Thanks a lot Rob,thats answered a lot of questions regarding this area,its always best to ask if your stuck,and this really bugged me.
Post #40 shows what I do Rock, but remember......this deviates from the originals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwellcm View Post
thanks for the turret section you posted recently,that was another area that was puzzling me,the tanks are expensive to go chopping them up and you dont know the correct way (or where) to cut them

keep up the good work,a fantastic thread

D
You're welcome! Yes, they are expensive and it's just like you stated about the "not knowing". For me, this has been a long trial and error process with numerous mistakes along the way. Why not help folks avoid what I've already avoided. Who wants to buy more Chieftains just to "try"??? Not to mention some of the REALLY expensive kits for these things?

One of my points the entire time I've been doing this. ESPECIALLY, if you like the way you see them turning out. I think mine come out fairly close to what we saw roll out on screen.
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Last edited by Eagle-1; 11-05-2012 at 03:15 PM.
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  #262  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Hi Rob,
Fantastic work on the tanks, proper modelling.
Nice tips on doing the fishtail joints, I have 23" eagle spine to repair and I will use this technique. I also like the using lego to get a nice square cut.
Why does my brain not work like this.
All the best, John.
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  #263  
Old 11-15-2012, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Thank you John!

A little update, but not the completed assembly I thought. This one will be on the radar dish and pole assembly.

Here's the parts needed for the radar dish on the Eagle type tanks.



The dish, when assembled, should look something like this. This is a dish made from the original parts I just showed.







On this one with the original parts, I haven't assembled it 100% yet. I needed to install the brass rod seen because this is one of the radar dishes I will try and make rotate.

This section of brass, seen above, is 1/16". This 1/16" shaft will extend down through the pole through 1/8" tubing so that it will always operate very smoothly. I'll show more in a bit.

The radar dish itself gets mounted to Revell Polaris part #22. Since there is a hole already in part #87 from the AIRFIX Lunar Lander kit, I add a pin to the rear of the Polaris piece for added strength. To get the correct angle once the dish is assembled, there is a small piece of .030" styrene slipped just under the polaris piece between it and the V-shaped REVELL V-2 Missile kit part (#72....seen above with the brass inserted), seen on mine as the white strip all the way across, again, for strength.



The pole itself is 5/16" thick wall styrene tubing with an angle lathed in at the top of the pole. On the original, there is 3/16" tubing inserted into the 5/16" tubing that the nub on part #72 was inserted into. On mine, I still have the 3/16" tubing, but I bored it out so that I could insert the brass tube.





Once all this was assembled, I made a very small 1/8" washer to ride between part #72 and the 1/8" brass tube of the pole. Checking everything, it has a very smooth rotation. Here, along with the couple other pieces that make up the mount for this pole, is that washer and where it will go.





Again, I'm making several tanks at once, so here's a picture of the dish made from original parts and several made from my cast parts. TWO of these builds will have rotating radar, so you can see two with brass.





That's it for now, but I'll be back shortly with those two cylindrical tanks seen right behind the Command Module on both sides of the Eagle tank. They are built in two different configurations, with different parts and I want to talk some about their orientation.

Rob.
Attached Images
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  #264  
Old 11-15-2012, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle-1 View Post
Again, I'm making several tanks at once, so here's a picture of the dish made from original parts and several made from my cast parts. TWO of these builds will have rotating radar, so you can see two with brass.
Nice work Rob.

Rotating that dish is going to require a little ingenuity here because the Radar stem is positioned quite close to the edge. I would think some sort of belt driven system would work, providing that there is sufficient clearance above the caterpillar track. An interesting problem to tackle.
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  #265  
Old 11-15-2012, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Hey Nigel!

Hopefully, I've got a plan already. I think I will try the belt drive option. I think this will work as long as I can find a sturdy belt and keep everything very small. I'm trying to find some belts that operate CD/DVD drive trays. They are very sturdy and should last many years. I'll make the motors adjustable so that if it happens to get loose, it will be very easy to tighten it.

Here's my plan.



I have already found some really nice motors. I know I said earlier that I was going to try the motors from those turntables, but I never really liked that idea. Those motors weren't very sturdy and were kinda bulky.

I kept searching and found some mini motors with built-in gearboxes that appear to be very sturdy. I have bought two versions that both mount exactly the same bases. One is an 8 RPM version at 4.5 volts and the other is a 30 RPM at 12 volts. You can put different voltage to these motors from 3 to 12 volts. We'll be dealing with 6 volts, so in the case of the 30 RPM motors they'll turn slower than that and with the 8 RPM's, faster. I'll need to check and time them so I can see which turns best for what we want here. Like we discussed, they'll need to turn slow, so it'll probably be the 8 RPM's which should turn about 10-12 at 6 volts?

What you think?

Here they are:



I'll wire these into the battery box so that the radar starts turning as soon as you switch the tank on and everything else will operate using the remote for the Chieftain.

Rob.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg drive.JPG (20.3 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6092.JPG (272.0 KB, 69 views)
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  #266  
Old 11-15-2012, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

As I said earlier, here's a little on those cylinders just behind the Command Module on both sides of the Eagle tanks.

Here's the parts needed:





The parts from the Saturn V (#66 & #67), as can be usual with these particular kits, are slightly out of round when joined together. Not so much when you build the rocket itself, due to the fact that there are round parts which would go inside and help make these return to a round shape. Since I've cast one of these parts, I add some inside so that these cylinders will be more round. In the next picture, it is the two round discs seen.



Here's parts #66 & #67 from the AIRFIX 1/144 Saturn V OR Saturn 1B. This is one of the several pieces NOT included in the latest release of this kit from AIRFIX, so vintage kits will still be needed for these.



Here's where they go.



Once those discs are installed, the two halves join together without ending up out of round. Then, depending on which tank (drivers side or passenger side) these get caps added from the REVELL 1/24 Gemini kit.



Here they are assembled. I shaded some of the details (on the lower tank/cylinder) with a pencil so that they show up better.




Then UNDER each tank, there are pieces from the REVELL V-2 German missile kit (parts #7 AND #8), shown here as to which side goes where.







As seen here, this is how the Gemini caps get oriented on the Saturn parts.....as close as I can figure. The tank with the nub sticking out the back (the one for our US passenger side), gets lined up as shown. The other side kinda has to be lined up according to the V-2 piece on the bottom. I haven't shown these with the saddle pieces (on the drivers side tank, V-2 missile part #39), but that will be seen shortly. I always sand the bottom V-2 pieces just a little once they are installed so that these cylinders sit flat. If not, the V-2 parts will be round and not as easy to work with while I install them.



These are also added to the tank staggered from each other side to side, they are not directly across from each other in a line.

Rob.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg parts.JPG (149.7 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg Dscn6074.jpg (133.3 KB, 67 views)
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Last edited by Eagle-1; 11-15-2012 at 10:41 PM.
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  #267  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:39 AM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Hey Rob, That's a good find on those motors. They look ideally suited. I suppose you could always stick a potentiometer across the supply to fine tune any desired final speed.

I'd never noticed the V2 parts under those Sat V tanks before. You can barely see them, but they are there. Very well spotted!
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  #268  
Old 11-16-2012, 03:40 AM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Rob your documentation on these tanks has to make this one of the best threads on this board. Excellent job!
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Thank you guys!

Jay, I try. That's all I DO is try.....



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Old 11-16-2012, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Moonbase Alpha Laser Tanks...ALL THREE!

Do.

Or do not.

There is no try.


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