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  #16  
Old 11-22-2007, 09:25 PM
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Lololololololololol
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Old 11-23-2007, 08:07 AM
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No pot stirring, just a few things to add to the info pile Kurt, you can trust or discard as you please sir.
Bottom line is that the ruling permanently banned Shepperton Design Studios from selling or importing any of thier stuff into the United States so wether Mr Ainsworth is in the right or not is moot from the Stateside buyers perspective as you'll most likely never be able to get them in anyways...

All this issue is a bit old since it has been going around since late 2006 but to chime in with a few pointers to info about the web...

Lucasfilm News Oct 2006
http://www.lucasfilm.com/press/news/news20061011.html

A brief historical rundown of the how, why, when and who made them vis production of the costume props.
http://www.rebelscum.com/stormtrooperhelmets.asp

A review of the stunt stormtrooper helmet just for info purposes like
http://www.rebelscum.com/euroscum/sd...operreview.asp

And finally a BBC news page with some details relating to the case
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6121886.stm

The final bill is some $20mil but, and this be the big but, the ruling is currently only good within the continental United States.
If Mr Ainsworth sets foot in the US then he's in deep doo-doo.

I have no paper evidence to present but last words i have from sources which shall remain nameless here indicate there was a hearing of sorts which rested on the issue of contract and ownership of original physical design etc.

None of which, it seems could be proven in favour of Lucasfilm in a UK court of law. We all know from where the 'image' originates on film but that an aside to the 'from the brain and hands of whom did the final thing spring and what do we have on paper vis ownership?' issue.

If he is the recaster as some accuse then truth may finally emerge, if not and he's completely kosher then hopefully that will come out. As to when either may happen is anyones guess.

That's all i have, concrete evidence still elusive i'm afraid.
Wish i could be more help.
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  #18  
Old 11-23-2007, 12:21 PM
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WOW!! That is GREAT stuff Ian! Thank You! It certainly paints a better picture for everyone.

I just hope things may get resolved soon. It would be nice to have the option to get something that was of "real" origin. That is when I will start displaying "life sized" diaramas of suited Troopers in battle poses! I can't imagine the effec that will have on the pocket book however! LOLOLOLOLOL... I am dreading that $ figure! LOLOLOLOL

Thanks again for the GREAT information my friend! It is more than I could possibly have asked for!
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  #19  
Old 11-25-2007, 10:23 AM
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This was posted by BingoBongo275 on the RPF this morning...

Quote:
OK then, my 2c,

imo Lucasfilm licensed producers aside, AA has more of a "right" to make this stuff than anyone else. To refer to him as a "recaster" is madness - how can the guy who fabricated the original armour (and most certainly added some artistic element) be accused of recasting someone else's copy of that work?

Now thats not saying he's without fault. Clearly claims about 100% accuracy and the extent of his involvement in the movie has understandably turned a lot of people against him. Same with the statement to some on this board over the originality of the armour moulds. Shoulder bells aside there are just too many RotJ tells so it was a really, really dumb thing to do. Even at the time I was very surprised to hear that he was making those statements.

So that leads me to the two key areas that to ME have been the most important issues in the AA/SDS soap opera.

1)Did he sculpt the original stormtrooper helmet?
2)Does he still have the original helmet moulds?

I’ll deal with #2 first. I am still of the view that he DOES have the original Stormtrooper helmet moulds, but that they are in such a different state now to that they were in when he produced the original Stunt helmets in ’76, that to many they are now far too inaccurate. I can respect that view, but imo if his TK helmets are from the original moulds that still gives me something I don’t get from other makers helmets. As far as the other helmets he produces, its my opinion that he only has mouldings – but again I see more “value” in that and as an example I still think that AA’s TIE helmet is by far and away the most accurate out there, Mohawk aside. However if he does only have mouldings then I would agree that AA’s wrong and should NOT have traded on the “Original Moulds” ticket.

As far as the “Did he sculpt the original Stormtrooper Helmet” issue, this has been the KEY issue for me over the past 5 years. Despite a considerable amount of investigation over the years, talking to a number of people involved in production (like John Mollo and Brian Muir long before anyone else here did), I reached a dead end with no other possible candidate other than AA. HOWEVER the LFL v SDS case has thrown up a new piece of evidence this year, namely LFL’s insistence that there was an “Original Clay Sculpt” and this was backed up by 5 photographs taken by Gary Kurtz at Elstree very early in Jan/Feb ‘76 (est). This information and especially the photos cast a totally different light on this issue.

If as it now seems, it is finally confirmed that AA didn’t personally sculpt the helmet then imo it places him in a wholly different position from a moral standpoint, let alone legal. I’m sure there are a number of people here who will relish this news.

Cheers

Jez
I must say that with the evidence that DOES exist, I am still uncertain of who the rightful owners of this stuff is. After all, they were contracted to make these items by LFL back in the day.

So, as someone put it before... the chicken of the egg?

It just seems to be common sense.
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  #20  
Old 11-25-2007, 10:47 AM
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I am beginning to see that there is only speculation and that this whole thing may be fabrication to keep money flowing in the pockets of those who make these items.

This is absolutely rediculous. These are costumes people. This is all suppossed to be FUN! It looks like the pit of humanity...GREED... is winning over once again! Shamefull indeed!

With the attitudes I have come across in this specific hobby, and the decieptful lies told in the name of justice, I am not impressed and find hard to even care what those who would argue these points think.

Of those people... think what you will think... let paranoia run rabid. Eventually we all must grow up. Neverland does not exist other than in our hearts. Even then, you'll either be a "lost boy" or a "pirate". Which shall you be in your argument with the SDS subject?

PROOF SPEAKS LOUDER THAN SPECULATION!!!
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  #21  
Old 11-26-2007, 01:12 PM
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Kuhn,

One claim of recasting by SDS that has been admitted to by SDS is for the original helmet stand that he sold with his helmets.

This stand was originally offered by Master Replicas as the base of their Jedi Training Remote replica.

SDS admitted recasting that base and issuing it as his own.

This, although admittedly small, is an indicator that the man has no problem taking other people's property and using it for his own purposes.

I was perma-banned from the RPF for raising too much of a stink about the whole AA/SDS deal two years ago, so if you need anymore of the history, let me know.
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:38 PM
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Sorry, I just couldnt resist this....


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Old 11-27-2007, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moogybaby View Post
Kuhn,

One claim of recasting by SDS that has been admitted to by SDS is for the original helmet stand that he sold with his helmets.

This stand was originally offered by Master Replicas as the base of their Jedi Training Remote replica.

SDS admitted recasting that base and issuing it as his own.

This, although admittedly small, is an indicator that the man has no problem taking other people's property and using it for his own purposes.

I was perma-banned from the RPF for raising too much of a stink about the whole AA/SDS deal two years ago, so if you need anymore of the history, let me know.
Yes... please... there will be no bannings here for information being given. However, being that the subject has clearly stemmed the debates, I would try to stick with just the facts. I have read to much emotional speculation on the RPF regarding this that just isn't productive in finding the truth. Who knows? Maybe the information given here will actually lead to the REAL answer! That is all I could ask for!
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:38 AM
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Looks like my thread on the RPF regarding this is still going out of control with over 2800 views and lots of participation. All negative, but still participating!

Lord Abaddon is again getting fired upon by the same guy (Jumpin Jax) who was crucifying me for wanting to know the truth, but stating that he didn't have to prove it and that his word should have obvious truth. While I understand where he is coming from with his anger, I still need fact... not emotion.

This is a case where lack of record in the industry back in the day is definitely a learning experience. Not only for the industry, but for the 'all knowing' claimed fans as well. Conjecture from personal friends leads to saying that because that friend said so, it must be true. I just don't buy that line of thinking. First hand knowledge, and fact are the only players in my book regarding truth.

I would ask that facts step forward to be sorted out in a more calm fashion than what I have seen from some of the Costuming Fandom with their conjecture.

Moogybaby... information is definitely welcome here.

There are definitely THREE camps in this. Those for AA/SDS,... those against AA/SDS, and those who want more information... like me.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:40 AM
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Kuhn,

When I get home from work, I'll post up a little history with pics.

Peace.

Tom
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moogybaby View Post
Kuhn,

When I get home from work, I'll post up a little history with pics.

Peace.

Tom
Very kewl!

Thank You Tom!
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:26 PM
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Well... due to the non progression of the thread, it was locked down on the RPF at almost 3200 views and much in arguing participation.

I am sorry it came to that, and I understand why moderator "yakcam" (Kraig from down under ) closed it's doors. I am actually glad he did so since it wasn't doing anything positive and creating such unrest. Thank you Kraig! I will take his advice and search the internet for the PROVABLE answers I seek.

This thread will continue for anyone that wishes to join in the search for the TRUTH of this matter. I challenge everyone to step up to get this done if they have provable knowledge.

I also will welcome any and all who participated in the RPF thread to join in as well. I just ask that an open mind is truly observed in the pursuit of the truth.

Approach the topic as if you were presenting a case before a Judge and Jury. Speak with fact,... not emotion. It is then we may find the truth.
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:50 PM
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Kurt,

Didn't have a chance to post last night. Lord Applebee was successful in getting the thread shut down.

I'll give it a go later.

Peace.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:52 PM
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do you think this may be the real reason why it was always a cgi effect and there was never an actual suit of armor produced for the prequels?
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  #30  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:18 PM
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LOLOLOL.. interesting thought OylPslyk! Could that have any basis in fact? That would be interesting to know.
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